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Enhancing Bridge Programs to Increase College Access and Success


The Alliance for Excellent Education and MDRC Invite You to Attend a Webinar on

Enhancing Bridge Programs to Increase College Access and Success

Loren Blanchard, PhD, Senior Vice President for Academic Affairs, Xavier University of Louisiana
Amy Dalsimer, Executive Director of Pre-College Academic Programming, LaGuardia Community College/CUNY
Mariana Haynes, PhD, Senior Fellow, Alliance for Excellent Education
Vanessa Martin, Senior Associate, MDRC

Nearly 20 percent of high school freshmen do not graduate, and many of those who do graduate are underprepared for a labor market that increasingly prizes specialized training and college education. Promising bridge programs that help students access and persist into college provide important lessons on designing stronger pathways to postsecondary education. How do effective bridge programs prepare students, particularly underserved youth, for the rigor of a higher education?

In this webinar, Vanessa Martin will describe the positive findings from the MDRC evaluation of LaGuardia Community College’s Bridge to Health and Business Program. Amy Dalsimer, the program’s director, will describe its design, which tripled the number of LaGuardia bridge students enrolled in community college. Finally, Loren Blanchard will share important insights into Xavier University of Louisiana’s highly successful bridge programs, which educate high school minority students interested in pursuing STEM fields. In 2011, Xavier was the top producer of African American students who earned medical degrees. Mariana Haynes will moderate the discussion. Panelists will also address questions submitted by webinar viewers from across the country.

Support for this webinar comes from the MetLife Foundation.


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good afternoon. I’m mariana haynes. Thank you for joining the  alliance and mdrc, a nonprofit,  nonpartisan education and social  policy research organization for  today’s webinar on enhancing  bridge programs to increase  college access and success. We are fortunate today to be  joined by a terrific panel of  experts and will introduce them  fully in a moment. But first, let me tell you a bit  about the presentation. Today, we are highlighting  successful bridge programs  developed by laguardia community  college and xavier university of  l la. These exemplary programs provide  important lessons on designing  stronger pathways to post  secondary education. Like most of our web casts, this  is interactive affair and enjoy  your participation. If you would like to ask  questions of our webinar guests,  do that with the form and we’ll  turn to your questions from time  to time throughout this webinar. We encourage you to tweet about  the webinar using the hash tag  or@mdrc news and then on the web  cast page and brought up on the  video screen from time to time. It’s also important for you to  know that this program is made  possible by the generous support  of the met life foundation. So now let me share some  background about today’s topic. Nearly 40 million adults lack a  high schooldy loma or  credentials such as the general  educational development  credential or ged. In many large cities, dropout  rates for students of color and  low income students stood at 50%  and while high school  credentials — opportunities,  every year in the united states,  nearly 60% and that is across  both two and four-year college,  entering students discover to  take remedian courses in english  and or mathematics before they  earn college credits. So to understand what’s needed  to close the high school and  college readiness gap, this  webinar showcases two very  different bridge programs. Now, both are highly successful  in boosting students’ academic  skills and getting them read —  for college.

The guests are uniquely  positioned to comment on these  programs and i want to introduce  them to you. On my immediate left we have  vanessa martin, a senior  associate at mdrc with over ten  years of experience in the  policy research field. Vanessa directed a vigorous  evaluation of the laguardia  community college’s bridge to  health program and sharing the  find frgs the rigorous study  which is one of the few to focus  specifically on curriculum and  program design along with  efforts to forge a stronger link  to college and career training  and next to vanessa is amy  dalsimer at laguardia community  college, part of the city  university of new york. Amy manages a variety of adult  literacy, work force development  and initiatives serving  thousands of young adults and  out of school youth each year. She’s going to describe the  rationale and the design of this  nationally recognized ged bridge  to career and college pathways  project. And finally, dr. Loren  blanchard. He is joining us remotely from  new orleans, senior vice  president for academic affairs  at xavier university of  louisiana and served in a number  of louisiana institutions of  higher education to reach their  goals. Loren will share important  insights into xavier’s highly  successful bridge to college  programs which have earned  national acclaim for producing  exemplary results for minority  students pursuing s.t.e.m.  fields. Thanks to everyone for joining  us today. It might be helpful to share a  few details before we get into  the panel. These two transition programs  serve low income students and  students of color in their  surrounding environs. Both laguardia and xavier in new  orleans responded to similar  challenges. They created bridge programs  that share common elements and  exceptional in the design and  impact. Those developing the programs  began by asking critical  questions about student  outcomes, such as, were students  completing a rigorous program of  study for credential? What does rigorous mean? For young adults earning a  diploma or a credential and  enrolling in college and  succeeding in coursework? Both programs made similar  decisions over time. So, for example, both use a  career pathway approach that  provides students with an  instructional context. Both programs provide rigorous  coursework and instruction to  engage students in building deep  conceptual knowledge and  analytical skills across subject  areas. They focus on developing  cognitive strategies but also  they develop students’ general  academic habits such as time  management or setting goals or  how to direct their own learning  and both programs offer enhanced  adult and peer support with  intensive advisement. With that groundwork, it is high  time to turn to the panelists.

Let’s begin. We’re going to start with la  guard why’s community college’s  bridge program. States and districts working to  improve college readiness so, va  necessary that and amy, can you  provide the context for the  creation of this program, why  was it developed and what were  some of the specific elements  that were considered in its  design?


sure. Yes. So we’re telling the story  mariana mentioned today of the  very successful ged program,  bridge program that doubled ged  pass rates and population in  particular, disconnected young  adults, demands a lot of  attention. This is, you know, this was a  second chance kind of program. And these are people who have  been disconnected from work and  school and, therefore, you know,  really demand a lot of focus and  attention in terms of, you know,  thinking about how — what kind  of programs work for them and  public policy arena. The reality is that in today’s  labor market, you need some  college or training to earn a  living wage. However, we know that many  people face a multiple barriers  to college access and success. So a lot of these disconnected  young adults, as mariana  mentioned earlier, 40 million  adults that lack a ged or high  school die plo ma, that’s 21% of  american adults barring most of  them from college entry. Few students in adult education  achieve the ged. So many of them attempt to get  the ged but, you know, very few  achieve that high school  credential. Even those that do have a  credential appear at college  unprepared to succeed. 12% of ged complete one year of  college and 3% go on to earn an  associate’s degree. So, what can we do about this? So we realize now that there is,  you know, potential hope for  these students, that’s something  to help them. And the bridge programs can  really help prepare students for  college and training. Mariana went through the key  elements between the two  programs we’ll be talking about  today. I’ll kind of highlight them  quickly for you but the key  design elements are college prep  curriculum, the support for  college entry, a critical cart  of it. The transition into college is  oftentimes difficult. There is a direct connection to  postsecondary education,  particularly with the laguardia  program that amy will discuss in  a minute, housed and operated as  a college community and  important element to student  success and making that  connection. There’s career preparation. So students — you know, real  world sense of how these  programs could potentially help  them later on to get a job. And this aspect of there’s  management enrollment and  participation support and  students come in as a cohort and  they have support to succeed in  the program. So, without further ado, i’ll  pass it off to my colleague to  speak much more about this  program design and  implementation.


thanks, vanessa. Thanks to mariana and for having  us today. It is part of the city of new  york. We are in western queens,  incredibly diverse u.s.  district. Many of the students are very  low income. And the population that the  bridge model is really focused  on is the 20% of residents  around our surrounding  communities around the college  who are over 19 and do not have  a high school diploma. And it is really important for  us to focus on the group because  without the high school diploma,  really, you know, in a labor  market, especially in new york  city, that’s increasingly  requires postsecondary  experience and postsecondary  training and college credentials  to get a good job in the  workforce. That population needs to be  brought back to school and they  need to be given the chance to  move forward into postsecondary  and on to a career. So, laguardia has always served  the second chance community,  those are disconnected youth and  adults without the high school  diploma. Laguardia had, you know,  anywhere between 3,000 and 4,000  students on the campus looking  to earn the diploma. But back in 2006 we took a  pretty close look at our data. We started to ask ourselves, you  know, how’s this community  doing? How’s the community of high  school equivalency students  doing? Are they retained, staying in  classes, earning that high  school diploma? And a new question we started to  ask ourselves, are they going on  to college or postsecondary? For a listening time, we  measured our success just by,  you know, are they coming to  class and are they earning the  diploma? But as the economy started  shifting, we began to understand  that really our new objectives  and our new goals were to have  them move forward into  postsecondary. And what we found really was  that we weren’t doing as great a  job as we had hoped and that the  students were kind of dropping  out and stopping out at all of  those points for a variety of  reasons which we’ll talk more  about today i think but we  decided at that point in 2006  that we needed a program  redesign. And so, we built the ged bridge  to college model which we’re  talking about today and which  mdrc then studied. And really, our design goals, we  have four basic design goals for  the bridge. Which i want to mention because  i think in terms of serving this  community, it means looking  at — looking at a number of  data points and benchmarks for  the students we may not have  historically looked at. So the first is our bridge  design is an access model. So when we wanted to build our  on-ramp to college and our high  school to college model, we  wanted to make sure that we  could still admit as many low  level adult and youth students  as possible, students who have,  you know, fundamental barriers,  literacy barriers, students who  are at the lower ends of reading  and writing. And so, our models and access  model’s 50% of the student that  is come to us saying they need  to earn the high school diploma  read below the ninth grade level  so the bridge model is to admit  students at the seventh grade  and above and that’s important  that we maintain open access for  those students. We started to look deeply at  engagement and assistance and  say, you know, we recognize  there was sort of a stopping out  and a churn happening where  students were saying, i need to  earn a diploma. They were signing up but not  persisting in the classes so how  do improve engagement and  student persistence became  important to us and are they  earning that credential, the  diploma? And then finally, are they  transitioning successfully into  college and postsecondary? And in order to sort of frame  that redesign and meet those  objectives, we decided to take  an aspirational model. We decided to take an  aspirational approach to the  model and built a sector focused  approach. We offer three tracks to the  bridge to health care, a bridge  to business careers and a bridge  to science. And the hallmark of those tracks  is that in each curriculum is  con tekt julyized and career  spectra focused and students  learn in that sector and  building in the pre-college  phase some of the foundational  knowledge and kind of  professional ways of thinking  and knowing they need as they  move forward. Those tracks also mirror the way  that higher ed is organized so  it’s important for students in  the pre-college phase to say,  oh, you know, i’m interested in  health and then getting the  college side to realize that  they have to enter a health care  major and develop a discipline  and ultimately a professional  identity. Finally, you know, health and  business and science and  increasingly big opportunities  in new york city. They’re big employment sectors  and so we want to set our  students up for jobs and on a  career track with local  opportunity. So just to give you a little  sense of who the program, who’s  in the program, and what the  program looks like, bridge  students as you can see from the  slide in front of you are very  diverse students. Predominantly black and hispanic  youth. We have a majority of females. Our average age in the program  is 26. And we have about more than half  of our population on public  assistance and about 38% of  those folks could be employed  but are oftentimes very  tenuously connected to the world  of work. And as you can see, i think it’s  about close to half of our  population enters the program  reading at the seventh and  eighth grade level and it’s as i  said it is an access model. We’re trying to reach to — into  the community of adults and  youth that need an on-ramp and  high school to college  completion model. The mod sell a managed  enrollment model so oftentimes  the programs designed as open  entry, open access to come in  and work independently. And we very explicitly decided  to build and manage enrollment  so students study over a  semester. And we find that, you know,  that’s very important for their  retention and mirrors the way a  college semester works and in  the design of the bridge is a  lot of intentional design around  saying, what is the pre-college  program and the high school  completion program? How does it mirror if and when  the students get to college and  how are we designing a program  that helps smooth the pathway. We have a three-step admissions  process so while we’ll admit  students reading at the seventh  and eighth grade levels, we ask  them to participate in a  thorough admissions process to  build persistence and the  beginning of that conversation  about goal setting and setting  and building our college going  culture and sort of an  aspirational conversation with  them. And, you know, the real hallmark  of our program is this career  focus contextualized curriculum. Those are the questions we get  asked which is, what are the  career focused curriculum look  like? How are you preparing people for  the equivalency diploma and  ready for college and careers  all at the same time. So, contextualized curriculum is  a sector approached focus to  getting students high school  equivalency, basic skills  preparation and preparation for  college that uses an authentic  materials from a career sector  to build their basic skills,  basic skills in reading and  writing and math. So, the contextualized  curriculum is beyond test prep. It helps students develop sort  of both key knowledge in the  disciplines and begin to sort of  understand what it means to  think in the discipline. And in that career sector, key  topics. It helps them to work toward  sort of more, sort of more  rigorous interdisciplinary  learning of units of instruction  to be exposed to text that is  are increasingly complex. We focus on informational text  and the use of evidence to  support claims in their reading  so the development of real  academic reading and writing and  math and within the context of  the disciplines. All of the tracks start with a  12-hour unit on college and  career exploration. And then, for students in the  health care track, they would be  exploring units such as  nutrition, patient care,  epidemics, and for the students  in business, many of whom are  interested in being  entrepreneurs or being small  business owners, we have a unit  on entrepreneurship. Again, the emphasis is using  robust curriculum. It helps students increase both  their knowledge of the  profession and also knowledge  they’ll need once they get into  college. In addition to the comprehensive  curriculum, students receive a  lot of transition support and  this is a key aspect of the  model. Most of — all of our students,  in fact, are first generation to  college. So they don’t have the same  supports at home that someone  whose parents have gone to  college and are familiar with  college can provide so the  program is really designed to  provide comprehensive  counseling, not just career  counseling, but also, assistance  with admissions, financial aid. We do this both in groups and  one on one and we ask our alumni  and professionals to come into  the class to sort of talk about  their successes or what’s worked  and moving on through college  and becoming a professional in  that area. And, you know, the main designs  i would say around the bridge  model are that we have full-time  teachers, very important to have  professionally highly skilled,  highly trained — about  effective learning. Developing students. We have a full-time transition  adviser. That’s very important. We build a lot of strong  partnerships with folks in the  community and in the — people  we need to help us do this  transition work. Again, our financial office,  admission office, the faculty in  all of the disciplines so that  they have input both into the  curriculum design at the  pre-college phase, but also, are  able to understand the student  population that’s moving from  the pre-college programming into  the major. And we’ve learned a lot by  partnering with mdrc. Having mdrc come in and study  the program has been wonderful  and i want to turn it back over  to vanessa to share the results  of our random assignment  research.


okay. Thank you, amy. So a little bit of background as  to why mdrc got involved in this  evaluation. We started working together way  back in 2010. Kind of embarked on this  adventure, if you will. Right? And because we had studied many  programs where students would  get the ged but or the high  school credential, but then,  kind of it would be terminal  degree. Right? We really wanted to try to focus  on making that transition  because while we know the high  school credential or ged is very  important to have, it’s a means  to an end. And it’s not the end in and of  itself and we wanted to find  something to help bolster the  transition. So we started these  conversations with laguardia  because we had heard, you know,  great things about their  program, very strong, kind of  rigorous, intensive and yet  short term and manageable for  students working and have other  come petting demands in their  life and they were, you know,  willing to go on this journey  with us and take a chance to do  the evaluation so we’re very  fortunate to start working with  them back then. So the study itself uses a  random assignment, research  design to evaluate the facts of  the student achievement and how  that works is students, there’s,  you know, pretty intense  application and enrollment  process. Once students are deemed  qualified and eligible and  interested in paptding in the  program, they’re then randomly  selected, kind of like tossing a  coin, to either receive the  bridge program or to receive in  this case the more traditional  ged prep program. And the program that we — where  the students who were randomly  assigned into that group, they  received a program that  laguardia modeled, created,  modeled after one of their  tuition-based programs. So, it was this really clear  distinction between this more  enhanced, intense ged bridge  program versus more traditional  ged prep program and i’ll  explain about the differences in  the two programs in a second. We’re studying the  implementation and impacts of  the ged bridge program and not  just the affects of the program  but also very interested in  understanding how the program  operated and studying it in  context and understanding how  much effort goes into  implementing a program such as  this. And we received generous funding  both from the evaluation and the  program from the robin hood  foundation and the metlife  foundation. So as i mentioned to talk a  little bit about what the ged  bridge program is being compared  to, you should be seeing a slide  now showing ged prep versus ged  bridge. Again, these are the two  research groups we were  studying. So the core kind of elements we  were looking at, right, in the  domains were the differences in  the curriculum, the differences  in the class time, and the  differences in the transitional  counseling. So, the ged prep curriculum much  more your kind of ged  preparation. They taught using ged textbooks,  standard practice tests. The big difference, again, with  the bridge which is really the  crux of the model as amy talked  about is this curriculum that  used authentic materials,  original lesson plans. The class time is also a big  difference. In ged prep, 60 hours over 9  weeks versus 108 hours over 12  weeks in ged bridge and a lot of  that extra time was to get  through this more intense kind  of deliberate material that they  created in the bridge program. And the transitional counseling,  there was — for those in the  ged prep group, for those  students, there was really none  beyond general college  resources. The students who — the  professors and instructors who  taught these classes were mostly  adjunct professors that didn’t  have much of a connection to the  college and weren’t in a  position for guidance and  counseling to these students. Whereas in the bridge class it  was — there was both in class  and out of class individualized  counseling and deliberate focus  on working with the students  from the very beginning, as soon  as they started the program on  making sure that this  expectation that they would be  making the transition into  college. Or training.

So i’m going to talk about the  findings, implementation  findings and impact findings. We spent a lot of time on campus  working again very closely with  laguardia to understand the  model, did observations of the  classes, spoke to many students,  spoke to program staff and what  we learned was that the ged  bridge program has a  well-designed curriculum and  strong instruction and student  support and all the things  promised to do it did and it  really implemented it well and  it really i think where it  starts was from the strong and  coordinated leadership and  instruction. And there was leadership, very  strong, from the president on  down and this very intentional  design to create instruction  that was, you know, geared  around helping students move  into college and a career. There was strong adherence to  the program goals and curriculum  and assignments. Assignments were always —  future oriented with a focus on  business and health. I should state that during the  time of the evaluation, it was  just the ged bridge to health  and the bridge to business  classes that were running so  those were the two we studied at  the time. There was a big emphasis on  student retention and  engagement. A reason for why the  transitional counselor worked so  closely with the students  because there was such a, you  know, strong emphasis on  engaging the students and we see  this again in the impact that is  a lot of the key to the model is  keeping the students engaged and  helping them, you know, stay on  course and make the transition. And students came from a wide  variety of backgrounds. We found this experience, prior  ged classes. And we heard from a lot of  students that this program was  markedly different than what  they had experienced in the  past. Not only in terms of the  instructor and the quality of  the instructor, but really, in  how well the curriculum was  designed and how much they felt  engaged in the process and  really enjoyed the class. So again, ged bridge students  are more engaged, a greater  sense of direction than those in  ged prep, again, talking to both  students in both of these  classes. We really saw a big difference  in how much engagement and how  much direction and really the  sense that they would move  beyond the ged was felt. They reported experience was,  again, personal attention from  teachers and staff. They better understood financial  aid prereck sits and career and  college options. Again, many of whom, like amy  mentioned, you know, didn’t have  any kind of guidance from  parents or peers because, you  know, many of them were the  first ones in their family going  to college. So the fact that they would  receive this kind of attention  and information was very  beneficial. They had more confidence. Those in the ged bridge program  had more confidence about taking  and passing the ged. Than those in the ged prep  class. And there was, again, a very  deliberate intention to enroll  in postsecondary education. Many students came in thinking  this is a great opportunity to  get the ged. But again, the expectation was  set from the beginning and i  think as the course went on and  the program went on, they  realized there is actually  something more for me. I can go beyond the ged an  achieve much more in college and  a career. So, you know, the whole story is  very exciting but what we found  was so very encouraging. We saw higher ged pass rates and  postsecondary enrollment for  those in ged bridge so the slide  that should be seeing now  compared the ged bridge group to  a ged prep so there’s on four  key measures we looked at. Completed the ged class. Passed the ged exam. Enrolled in cuny and retained  for a second semester, meaning  they enrolled in a second  semester. In the completion, we saw about  a 30 percentage point difference  in those that completed the  class and again it speaks to the  high level of engagement of  these students and the great  preparation that they had to  complete the course. We saw 70% completion for ged  bridge and about a 40%  completion for those in the ged  prep group. For those who passed the exam,  we have about a 50% completion  for ged bridge and about, you  know, little over 20% completion  pass rate for the ged exam. Again, a huge, huge difference. All of these findings i should  also say are statistically  significant, meaning they — we  can say with a lot of confidence  they didn’t happen by chance. It is a true result of the  program. And then we also saw a very  large difference in enrollment  into cuny. This is across all of the city  university of new york community  college and not just laguardia  and most of the student wills  enroll at laguardia but a  measure of enrollment in all of  the city of new york community  colleges. Almost 20% enrolled in college  versus less than 10% in the ged  prep group enrolling into  college and then in terms of  retention into the second  semester, so those in ged bridge  were about a 10% enroll — 10%  enrolled into college whereas in  the ged prep group it was little  over, you know, somewhere  between 0 and 5% so big  difference there in terms of  retention into the second  semester. So, you know, really showing  that there is these students are  on a trajectory, on a path to,  you know, completing the —  their college and hopefully  getting the associate’s degree  or, you know, a credential at  the end.

And so, what’s next? We — these findings clearly  indicate that there are more  ways to make the ged exam more  relevant and better conduit into  college. It doesn’t have to be a terminal  degree.  Laguardia’s program is unique  but we know that other colleges  and institutions can adopt this  approach and create a program to  meet their students and local  labor markets and institutions. But there is potential to do  this elsewhere. Mdrc is now in the process of  further rigorous testing of  similar con tektualized ged  transition models. We know laguardia was strong and  we really think that this is a  promising model and we want to  see other approaches, similar  approaches work elsewhere to  really help this particular  population. And we also have a policy brief  in a video available on our  website for those who are  interested.


thank you. Thank you very much, vanessa and  amy. We can link those to the web  page for the archive video. We can provide the materials to  find those, as well as the  powerpoint presentation. I just want to commend them, the  mdrc. We follow your work a great  deal, helps the alliance a great  deal in the work we focus on,  but this marriage of between the  research and those that are  designing programs can really —  have had — contributed greatly  to the field in terms of  providing specific information,  not only as you said in terms of  impact but those specific design  elements and it lends itself to  replication and for other folks  to take advantage of this high  quality research because it’s a  random control experiment. Right? And that there’s a lot to be  learned, so maybe later on, want  to bring in dr. Blanchard, but  we can talk a little bit about  what some of those lessons  learned from participating with  mdrc. That’s valuable, as well. So dr. Blanchard, are you there?


i am here.

you have been waiting so  patiently and so grateful that  you have taken time from your  academic schedule to be with us  today. So, here’s another university  with exceptional mission and  leadership that has really  produced an exemplary program. And so, can you walk us through  that? Can i call you loren?


you certainly can do that. A special hello to you, mariana,  amy, vanessa and webinar view  earls from new orleans,  louisiana. I certainly would like to take  the opportunity to thank you,  the alliance and mdrc for  allowing me this opportunity to  share the story of xavier  university of louisiana relative  to the success of our bridge  program. Just to give you a brief context  for xavier university of  louisiana, we are a historically  black university. Our origins are rooted in the  catholic tradition, as well. In fact, we are the only  historically black and catholic  university in the united states. While we are a liberal arts  university, our claim to fame  has been the fact that 60% of  the students african-americans  in predominantly so, they major  in either science, technology,  engineering or mathematics here  at xavier. The s.t.e.m. disciplines. What we have been noticing as a  historically black university,  really two things. Number one, over the years we  have been noticing that there’s  been a declining number of  african-american students that  are entering college and we are  also — we’ve also been noticing  that there’s a growing number of  african-american students who  have been under prepared to  effectively negotiate a college  curriculum. We have noticed particular  underperformance in the areas of  mathematics, science and  reading. When i talk about the decline of  african-american students  entering college, here’s what we  see nationally. That for every 100 ninth graders  in the nation, what we know  today is that of those 100, 78  of those students will actually  graduate from high school. And of those 78 high school  graduates, we know that 49 of  those students will enroll in  college within the next year. And of those 49 enrolled in  college, 38 will actually be  retained as sophomore college  students. Of those 38, we know that 27  will actually earn a college  degree within a six-year period  and of those 27 students who  will earn that degree, only 3  will be african-american. In addition — while there has  been mild fluctuations in these  datas, in these data, these  statistics have largely been  trending for the past 20 years  or so. So, we have at xavier have been  asking ourselves the question,  for nearly two decades now, and  have learned quite a bit in  terms of continuing to ask these  questions, but it all centers on  why so few african-american  students are enrolling and  completing college. And a lot of it ties into the  statement that i made earlier as  it relates to the under  preparation of students to  really negotiate a college  curriculum, but also,  particularly as we look at the  areas of math, science and  reading. So, what we have learned is that  we have seen an alarming amount  of data that shows that students  in particular really are not  coming in ready for college. We see here that only 74% in  2013, only 74% of the students  who took the a.c.t. test  actually completed a minimum  core high school curriculum  consisting of four years of  english and three years of math,  social studies and science. These are obviously core or  curriculum that’s necessary for  college entry. And of that total 74%, we know  that only 69% of  african-americans have completed  that core curriculum which would  allow them to enter college. In addition to that, we know  that a.c.t. the american college  testing association, has worked  with the common core standards  to establish student performance  standards and using these  standards a.c.t. identified  benchmark scores that indicate  college readiness. For example, the a.c.t. college  readiness benchmarks are the  minimum scores required on the  a.c.t. subject test for high  school students to have  approximately a 75% chance of  earning a grade of at least the  “c” or better, 50% chance of  earning a grade of “b” or better  in the credit baring  introductory college course so  we know that we have these  benchmark scores that have been  established for all of the areas  but in the area of english you  have to get at least a 18. In mathematics, at least a 22. Reading, a 22. And science, a 23. To show evidence that you really  are ready to handle introductory  college courses. Here’s what we’ve seen for  african-american students. We know that african-american  students that 34% have met the  benchmark in english. Only 16% have met that benchmark  in reading. 14% in mathematics. 7% in science. And 5% meet all of the four  benchmarks. That speaks very clearly to the  level of under preparation that  we have seen certainly at xavier  but we’re talking nationally in  terms of the da that that we’re  presenting here. So if you flip that script an  you look at what i’m trying to  underscore here as it relates to  under preparation, particularly  of african-american students,  this slide shows that the  percent of students that took  the a.c.t. in 2013, the students  who did not reach the  mathematics benchmark of at  least a 22. Note that almost half of the  white students and less than 30%  of the asian students did not  score at least a 22 in math. But 73% of hispanic students and  alarming 86% of african-american  students did not reach that  benchmark score in mathematics. We see similar results in  science where here again the  benchmark score is a 23. That would be needed. And you see here that it’s a  concern for all groups with 64%  of the students overall not  reaching this benchmark. The low percentage of students  in this area particularly  alarming knowing how important  it is for our students to have  an understanding of science for  the global competition, but  also, in order for them to  effectively navigate a college  curriculum. And then the area of reading. Most people say why would we  want to concentrate on reading,  especially at the college level? Isn’t it just a given that these  students will have the amount of  skill level in basic literacy in  order to handle a college  curriculum? The answer to that question is,  no. But more importantly it’s the  ability to analytically read to  handle a college textbook and we  notice more and more students  are really not prepared in such  a way where they’re able,  especially in the sciences, to  handle the literacy component  relative to the kind of  analytical skill that is are  required. This slide as it relates the  number of students not meeting  that benchmark is where you see  40% of white and asian students  did not score at least a 22 or  reading but — in reading, but  two thirds of hispanic students  and 84% of african-american  students did not receive the  benchmark score in order for  them to show evidence that  they’re ready to handle  introductory courses that  require a certain level of  reading proficiency. You know, all of this is quite  sobering when you look at the  data, but also, when you look  even further into it, in terms  of the percent of students that  are meeting the benchmark and  the kind of coursework they’re  faking to prepare them to not  only hand tell introductory  courses but any other succeeding  courses in college. And so, what you see here is  probably embraced somewhat of a  no-brainer which it means is  that the more mathematics you  take in high school, the better  prepared you are to handle  mathematics in college. But as you see here, there’s the  more that you’ve got — what is  it? 53% of the students that did  meet the benchmark, 53% took 4  or more years of mathematics,  34% took 3 to 5 years of  mathematics and you see the  correlation as it’s a downward  spiral there but just showing  evidence that the more students  are able to effectively take  courses in mathematics in high  school the better prepared they  are in order to handle a college  level mathematics course  sequence. The same holds true in the area  of science. As you see here, with 46% of the  students being required who did  pass the proficiency test that  in a.c.t. proficiency test. 46% did complete biology,  physics and then you see for the  rest of the information shows  there in terms of underscoring,  again, the more science courses  you take in high school, the  better prepared you are in order  to handle a science curriculum. So, in terms of the under  preparation, it’s as i said  particularly for  african-american students, it’s  the fact that they’re not  reaching the score, they’re not  being prepared effectively in  math, science and reading. Many of them are not taking the  number of courses that they need  in order to really prepare them  to not only take introductory  courses, but to persevere and to  complete courses, succeeding  courses, in those areas, but in  addition to that, we continue  to — when we look at high  schools, we continue to see a  preparation gap. Minority preparation gap as it  relates to math and sciences. The 2012 science and engineering  indicators here show that the  preparation gap of minority  students in math and science  continues to remain consistent  across the years with about 30%  fewer black students showing  mathematics and science  proficiency in fourth grade,  eighth grade and 12th grade  relative to their white  counterparts. The proficiency gap even widens  when you look at it in terms of  gender for especially in high  school and mathematics and in  middle school science where  you’ve got black female students  who are clearly under performing  when you compare them to white  students and students of other  racial groups. What we have also recognized is  that teacher experience in  preparation k-12, namely middle  and high school teacher  preparation and experience, also  differs across schools with high  minority populations and high  poverty populations of students. We have seen that 92% of  mathematics teachers and 93% of  science teachers are certified  in low minority schools where  84% of mathematics teachers and  83% of science teachers in high  minority schools that are  certified in their areas of  study or areas where they’re  teaching. We have also noticed that 89% of  low poverty school science  teachers are certified. And 81% of high poverty science  teachers are certified. And then, also, that, you know,  science — with respect to  science, science and  mathematics, science and  mathematics teachers with three  or fewer years of experience  were more prevalent at high  minority and high poverty  schools so when you start  blending all of this together,  it begins telling a story that  we have been concentrating on  very, very carefully at xavier. Believe it or not, probably for  the past 20 years now to try to  get an understanding of what we  need to do not only to try to  turn this situation around, for  local and regional middle and  high schools, but more  importantly, to try to ensure a  stronger number of students,  african-american in particular,  who are actually being prepared  in such a way where they can not  only get entry into colleges and  universities, especially xavier,  but also, to ensure that they’re  able to persevere and to  complete a college curriculum  and in our case because we have  so many students that are  majoring in the s.t.e.m.  disciplines to make sure we  prepare them for professional or  graduate schools and the  workforce in those areas. So, here’s some of the things  that when you look across all  those — the dismal statistics  i’ve shown you thus far, here’s  what we have drawn out of that  that really becomes important  that we have been sharing with  others, as well, as they’re  developing their bridge programs  or their pipeline programs in  order to make sure that students  really are optimally ready for  college. The first thing that we have  noticed is that there is a  strong relationship between  science and reading and that for  african-american middle and high  school students, we had to  develop a means of shaping or  have to develop a means of  stronger sense of scientific  literacy to get them really  ready for college and talking  about scientific literacy, if we  have to break that down to give  a good sense of understanding of  what that means, it really is  preparing middle and high school  students with the ability to  read and understand articles  about science, evaluation —  evaluated evidence-based  arguments and being able to draw  conclusions, as well as to  specifically be able to identify  scientific issues and express  scientifically informed  positions. Those are three elements of  scientific literacy that we  believe to be really important  in mastering at the k-12 level,  namely middle and high school,  in order for those students to  be ready to handle that kind of  exercise and that kind of skill  once they reach our college  doors. In addition to that, in addition  to scientific literacy, we also  recognize the importance of  analytical reasoning in  strengthening proficiencies in  math and sciences, specifically  the abilities to engage in  analytical reading, engage in  critical thinking, understand  mathematics and to communicate  effectively. That these are optimal skills  that students really need in  order for them to be able to  enter into college, but also, to  complete a college degree  program, particularly in an  s.t.e.m. discipline. Here’s what we have also  noticed. That there really has been a  need for higher education  institutions to develop pipeline  programs for students interested  in s.t.e.m. disciplines. Really, it is along the concept  of growing your student  population, meaning that you  partner with k-12 schools and  then our instance it’s namely  high schools where not only do  we feel like we work in tandem  with those high schools, local  feeder schools in particular, to  identify the students that can  come in and spend their summers  here with us, every summer,  starting from eighth grade all  the way up until they enter our  college doors here at xavier or  someone else’s college doors,  and we are really shoring them  up in their mathematical,  scientific and reading  capabilities so that they really  can master a college curriculum  by the time they enter our  doors. In addition to that, we also  recognize that there really is  an important — it’s important  for higher education  institutions to provide academic  support systems for student  success and this begins with  those bridge programs, those  pre-college programs and then  with — would have to continue  and monitor and track the  performance of those students  who have participated in those  bridge programs, once they  actually reach our college  doors. So as a result of that, xavier  for the past 20 years, we have  been implementing a bridge  program or pre-college program  that we called the summer  science academy. And every year, well, let’s just  say pre-katrina, before  hurricane katrina, we were able  to command probably anywhere  between 1,000 to 1,500 middle  and high school students who  would be spending their time  here with us during the summer,  that has changed dramatically  since katrina, obviously. We don’t have as many people  living in new orleans, greater  new orleans region since  hurricane katrina. So now, we’re commanding about  between 600 and 750 middle and  high school students who are  here to participate in a series  of summer programs. And so, we start with math star  which is a rising eighth grade  program and that math star  introduces students to concepts  for students who will be in  enrolled in algebra and then  that group once they finish up  that summer, they go back, they  take algebra. We work with their algebra  teachers, as well as the fact to  monitor their performance in  mathematics to make sure that  we’re providing them ongoing  support through tutorial  services at their respective  schools or here at xavier. And then we’re also — we start  focusing in on our next summer  program which is bio star which  is a hands on introductory  approach to topics covered in a  high school biology course where  we provide them with active  laboratory exercises and really  for rising ninth graders and get  those students ready for biology  and then that next summer  focusing on chemistry and then  for the final year and that’s  getting them ready now for their  senior year, it is just an  overall stress on analytical  reasoning which is the soar  program. But it’s all very sequentially  and developmentally implemented  in such a way where we are  focusing in on those two main  areas i mentioned earlier,  scientific literacy and  analytical reasoning. That’s embedded across each of  the summer programs in order to  get them ready for entry into  xavier, namely. But really, into any college or  university. Again, it’s the concept of  growing your own. You’re growing your students and  putting them through your doors  here at xavier. But i have to admit to you that,  you know, while we want to get  every one of those students into  xavier’s doors, that does not  always happen. Largely because of affordability  issues. We are a private university. But more importantly, we feel  really responsible for shaping  these students for any college  or university. And what we have seen is that we  get many notes of gratitude from  other universities saying,  thanks so much for all the work  that you have done to get these  students ready to enter our  universities and how proud they  are that these students are able  to handle their respective  college curricula and doesn’t  stop there in terms of those  basic programs. We have got a number of other  programs that we offer during  the summer such as the bio  medical scholars program. That one designed for those  students that now you’ve  completed the sequence of high  school programs, this one now is  the one right before you enter  xavier’s college doors where you  take college credit course in  biology and chemistry. You’re surrounded be enough  academic support to last for a  lifetime to ensure your success  that summer. Which then gives you six hours  that you have already completed  before you even enter the doors  during the fall semester. And then those students become  when’s known as the s.t.e.m.  scholars where on the next slide  you will see where those  students really are given a lot  of support through our freshman  seminar sequence with faculty  that track the students and  continue to monitor their  academic performance, as well as  their overall transition into a  four-year university. We also have what’s known as a  student success acam my and  that’s really designed for fresh  men where we prescribe for them  exactly the kind of academic  support that they have to engage  in. What do i mean by that? It means that based on your  a.c.t. score and based on your  high school gpa and based on all  the things that we have learned  about you for the past four or  five years since you have been  enrolled in our pre-college  programs, here’s the amount of  hours to spend at the math  tutorial lab, here’s the amount  of hours to spend at the science  tutorial lab and we can go on  and on with writing, we also  make sure that they spend a  number of hours in the  counseling center to make sure  they’re able to handle  transitional issues, but overall  it’s what we call a desk side  manner. You know, how doctors have a  bedside manner. We believe whole heartedly in  having a desk side man we are  the students to give them the  individualized care that they  need to make sure that they  really are getting what they  need in order to persevere  through xavier’s curriculum and  then as i said to place them  into graduate or professional  school and or into the  workforce. And so, with that, in addition  to all of that support that i’ve  just described, once they enter  the freshman year, that  continues throughout their four  years here with us. We have heavy advising that we  provide. The beautiful aspect i’m most  proud about that we do is for  the s.t.e.m. majors, each of  them are engaged in an  undergraduate research  experience with a faculty member  to engage them in research  opportunities, many of the  students before they even  graduate from xavier have  published articles along with  their faculty peers that in  addition to that and published  in really good journals and  research specific journals, but  they also make presentations at  conferences to get their feetd  as wet as they possibly can in  the field of study before they  actually leave us here at  xavier. We also engage them quite a bit  in international programming as  i just mentioned a few minutes  ago where they’re able to  conduct their research in the  summers in a different country  to understand the implications  of the kind of research that  they’re doing in an  international setting as opposed  to just looking at what happens  within the united states. And then we also have what’s  known as a grad star program  that starts with them in the  sophomore year getting them  ready for professional and or  graduate school where we take  them to those universities. We fly them there to the  universities that they think  that they have an interest in  enrolling for graduate or  professional school. We make sure that they are  involved in summer research at  those schools and more  importantly we help them through  the application process to get  them enrolled. So, coupled with that, the next  slide really shows the kind of  framework that we believe that’s  so important, not just about the  academic support but it really  is making sure that we have the  kind of environment here at  xavier that gives them support  as it relates to the financial  resources that they need in  order to be effective. Obviously, with the curriculum  and instruction, make sure we  have the right facilities,  academic services and we call it  like a wheel. A student retention wheel and  that that wheel has to be  operating very proficiently and  each one of those areas for  students really to be able to  get a rich and meaningful  college degree experience here  at xavier in order to prepare  them for what’s next. So, what is next? All those things that you just  heard me describe has culminated  in the ability for xavier to do  some touting. And here’s what we tout and we  know. We have number one for at least  20 years now or longer in the  nation in the placement of  african-american students into  medical school. We also have number one in the  nation for the number of  african-american students who  complete medical school. In addition to that, and i can  cite where we’re getting all  this information from, this is  information we’re not making up. This is information that comes  from the national science  foundation. We’ve also been ranked number  one in the nation in the number  of african-american students  earning undergraduate degrees in  biology, chemistry, physics and  the physical sciences. We’re third in the nation in  producing african-americans who  are earning a pharma d degree  and ties into as i noted earlier  about undergraduate research and  the engagement of students in  undergraduate research. We have just high quality  faculty researchers here at  xavier. As you see the amount of funding  that we are getting, both from  hhs as well as the national  science foundation in support of  the kind of critical work that  we’re doing in health related  areas which then allows those  students to be ready to go out  into if world and not only make  xavier proud but also to field  the national gap we now see  relative to the number of  minorities who are actually not  only engaging s.t.e.m.  disciplines but moving into  s.t.e.m. and health related  fields. I’ll stop at that point.


thank you so much, loren. This is powerful information and  coupled with the success that  mdrc documented for the  laguardia program about what’s  possible for students that are  so traditionally underserved in  k-12 education and through a lot  of other kinds of programs. We don’t have a whole lot of  time and what i would like to  really do is to get to some of  the things that we know are  absolutely essential for whether  it’s k-12 or it’s higher  education to begin to respond to  these challenges. One of the things that was very  clear, xavier you talk about  being at this for 20 years. Laguardia started about eight  years ago and you responded to  this gap. Long before the issue really has  captured national attention. And you did so through this lens  of data. And i think one would be helpful  is, vanessa, if you could weigh  in, you’re a statistician and  what are some sort of the  absolute essentials in terms of  data to be collecting in order  to both get this understanding  of the college and preparation  gap, as well as what loren was  talking about in terms of  identifying where the individual  student is, what are some of the  predictive indicators to allow  us to shape differentiated  programs for students to get  them to where they need to be? I mean, you want to — amy or  vanessa?


i’d be happy to.




i think loren talked about  that funnel, you know, he  presented the funnel on how many  students, you know, major in,  you know, and go on to college,  how many graduate from college,  how many, you know, pass and  earn their college degree and i  think the data for us at  laguardia on the funnel that  started pre-college, how many of  our students are in need, who  are either out of disconnected  and haven’t earned the high  school diploma or haven’t come  back to college, if you have a  college-going model for all and  a college access model for all  and then looking at are hay  staying? Are they being retained in the  classes? If they’re not there, they won’t  graduate. Are they earning in the instance  of the bridge program, first  earning a high school credential  because they need it to go to  the city university of new york  and earn a college degree and  then, again, the data points  from the study, are they  retained in the first semester  and big picture data points and  i don’t think before 2006 we  had.


and just having those helps  us understand maybe what we need  to do more of and how to measure  that. So those are sort of big ones. I think, you know, also looking  at what students can look at —  looking at both academic skills  and the types of literacy skills  they have, loren talked a lot  about are they able to read in  sciences? Do they have the ability to  write an academic paper citing  research? Do they have the ability to  build an argument, you know,  bringing in multiple sources? Those are all, like, key points  you want to look at in terms of  what individual skills a student  has. But i would also say you also  want to be looking at their  noncognitive skills and we do a  lot of that in the high school  to college models that we run. So, is the student — have we  helped them develop the  help-seeking behavior they need? That would be a good example of  what they need getting into our  university which is a very big,  public university, public  institution. They do have to have some  help-seeking skills and self  advocacy skills. Are they able to get and  understand when they’re not  understanding something or  struggling in a classroom? And be able to go to the  professor? How do they talk about what they  need? How do they advocate in the  financial aid department for  what they need? So there’s both the academic  skills and then the skills  around, you know, the  noncognitive self — the self  confidence skills and the  help-seeking skills, really.

do you have any sense,  vanessa, in terms of how common  it is in terms of institutions  collecting this kind of  information?

i mean, i think it really  varies depending on the  organization or the institution. You know, and what their  ultimate goal is. I think when we started working  with laguardia we realized  pretty quickly they were  collecting a lot of information. Wasn’t necessarily structured in  the way that we were thinking  about the evaluation but, you  know, through working together  became very apparent what were  the outcomes we were mostly  focused on and what were the —  thinking about what the goals of  the program, what did we really  want to measure? I think that, you know,  oftentimes i think a lot of  organizations or institutions  think when they hear data it’s  overwhelming and feel like i  have to collect a lot to be able  to learn what i need to learn  but what you realize over time  is you can boil it down to the  essentials.


some key indicators.


that they aren’t too  difficult to collect and analyze  even internally and i think the  big one with us was engagement  issue. Right? And like how much, you know,  because that being the first  milestone for students is  completing the course, i think  we were very to discussed on  let’s, you know, really measure  this first key outcome in terms  of completion because i think  that kind of set the stage for  everything else. I think the big key outcomes  from a policy perspective are  interested in are ged receipt  and enrollment in college and  obviously wouldn’t have happened  if there wasn’t a key  engagement.


right. The idea to back in, you have to  go very deep.




and identifying very specific  factors that can accelerate that  performance and move the student  towards specific college and  career goals.



and that also — i mean, some  of this is remarkable is the  acceleration that’s been  achieved. You’re bringing — dealing with  students under prepared and  you — we were working with  students —

i would like to add  something.

— so the question is sort of  what are the instructional  strategy that is you’re bringing  to bare? We got a question, also, that  was from one of the viewers who  was asking, like, how do you  help students develop attitudes  to succeed particularly when  they have been not been  successful in, you know, a lot  of divisional settings? I guess we can follow up with  loren. Take a step with that, as well? What do you see as the power in  really engaging these students  in ways that can accelerate  their literacy performance, for  example?

sure. Well, i mean, i do think that  having the curriculum be more  meaningful to them is one thing  about it so that we’re building  on their own aspirations for  coming back to school and unlike  the middle schoolers that loren  has, most of the students are  over 19 and they’re coming back  to us, to say i need to finish,  i need a high school equivalency  and go to college or a better  job and so having a career  focused curriculum is a  connection there. Just in terms of — to their  interest.

as you said, aspirational. You had to move into another  arena opposed to some sort of  remediation model.

right. Some more model that might  develop basic skills, basic  reading and writing and math  skills outside of a context  that’s connected to them. The other thing is i think we’re  favoring depth over breadth and  what you see in the common core  that’s rolling out, too. In order to develop the skills  that students need, those  analytic reasoning skills and  critical reading skills that  loren was also talking about, we  need them to go deep and really  grapple with issues and  become — we sort of say like  mini experts so in our ged and  high school equivalency classes  they’re doing capstone classes,  research projects they’re  working in groums often to solve  problems, engaging with  authentic materials and a lot of  nonsection, a lot of scientific  text or social study text. And i think the strategies about  how teachers do that is  important. So teachers who are working with  students who are under prepared  have to have the skills to  scaffold instruction, meaning  that we need to have rigorous  instruction. We need to be presenting, you  know, rigorous reading material  so because that’s where the  students are going but the  teacher that’s in the room needs  to be very well trained and  gifted in developmental  petagochi to help students  access and practice that  information and that’s the key  over time is the contextualized  aspect of the curriculum and  engage hem and help them  understand where they’re doing  and develop a sense of not just  sort of this idea of the  profession and the idea of  thinking in a discipline, but  also the sense of competency,  academic competency.

some experience with success  in dealing with challenging  material?

it’s not just i, you know, i  got a good grade on a multiple  choice test. It is much deeper than that. I did a research project and had  to, you know, struggle with  this, revise it, and really  spend sometime working on this  authentic project.

i want to add asking here.


yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. Especially as it relates to the  academic competency discussion  that’s happening now. You know, one of the thing that  is we work on here as well as  starting with the pre-collegiate  programs and continues  throughout once they reach our  doors at the college level is  helping the students, especially  african-american students,  especially in mathematics,  there’s a tremendous degree of  math anxiety that’s been very  difficult to really understand  and wrap our arms around. I mean, if you look at it in the  aggregate it’s definitely there  and impacts performance as their  own academic esteem and so we  spend a lot of time really  helping students individually  understanding what’s underneath  this anxiety about mathematics  and being comp hent in  mathematics. What are the your fears about  it? How can we help to get beyond  those fears so that you really  can have a stronger sense of  academic bra va do about  yourself relates to competence  level in mathematics and science  and heard me mention earlier  about the counseling side. The counseling center as well as  the mathematics labs and science  labs, we run constant sessions  either group and or  individualized on math anxiety,  science anxiety, overcoming  that. What are your barriers? What can we do to join you in  the victories getting beyond the  barriers and understanding how  proficient you can be and might  not where you are now but how  can we help you to reach that  proficiency level? I think that’s really important,  too, to this discussion about  competency and what middle  school and high school teachers  can do to understand that’s  really a major factor that  prevents many students now from  what we see and once they reach  our doors that prevents many  students to perform as well as  we’d like to see them.

well, we’re almost out of  time but i really — i would  love to ask so many questions. I want to ask both of you. But, a key question, of course,  how you scale some of this. How do you get other  universities, clearly you come  from mission-driven  universities. So how do we get more  collaboration across the k-12  and the higher education sector? How do you create expectations  and understanding of what  college ready means? That’s a big question. It’s another webinar. Right?

that it is.

thoughts on any of that sort  of this is obviously on the  national radar. But some suggestions from both  of you and from loren in terms  of as wrap-up on some of this?

well, i mean, we are looking  first to scale this on our  campus. Right? So and the way we’re doing that  on our campus is investing in  the faculty and the professional  development. So, we understand it’s  comprehensive model and  understand that most of the  heavy lifting has to happen in  the classroom where the students  are so i would say, you know,  focusing on initiatives that  help faculty learn from one  another, professional  development learning from one  another and doing that with  other institutions interested in  replicating a model like ours or  building more of an academically  college-going pre-college model. So that would be one strategy.

all goes back to the teacher,  right?

pretty much.

in the classroom. That sounds familiar. Loren, you have a suggestion?

yeah. Just quickly, i’ll just offer  two things to this part of the  conversation. One is that one of the things  that we have been doing more and  more is that we have been  pairing off our mathematics  faculty with some of our  mathematics teachers from our  major feeder schools for them to  not only have broad discussions  about mathematics and competency  that is are needed for students  to be successful in college but  also helps us to understand the  kind of professional development  that we then can offer those  mathematics teachers because you  heard some of the data i  presented talking about the  underpreparation, perhaps, if  you will, some of the teachers  or even their own anxieties of  teaching math or science and  shore that up and get them where  they need to be. The other side is the rep pli  case side. We’re fortunate to really have a  strong model here that in terms  of other colleges and  universities, we have had many  that have come to our doors not  only to see what happens in the  summer, but also, to have a firm  understanding of the model that  we have and that they have been  replicating that on their  respective campuses and happy to  say that many of those  universities are seeing similar  results.

that’s terrific. That’s wonderful. We need solutions for how to  clone you folks, you know? Replicating the model that is  are so powerful. I want thank you for joining us  today and sorry that we’re out  of time. We certainly have a lot more  we’d like to discuss. If for the audience, thank you  for joining us, as well. You can watch archived video  from it at www.all for And the slide as i said should  be posted by tomorrow. Along with the video. So thanks again for joining us  and have a great day.

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